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  1. #1
    Marijuana Growing Member
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    And Now For Something Completely Different


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    Yeppers I'm a Monty Python fan

    Been awhile since I have done a "just" grow journal. Hello Every One ! I am a old ass grower that does things a bit old school, a lot of K.I.S.S. and pretty much different from what most forums describe.

    My garden is perpetual, and located in my basement, it is a wide open space in a 500 sq ft room, there is no "intake" or "exhaust" I have never owned a carbon scrubber because my plants never stink unless there is something wrong.

    I live in Colorado, so enjoyin the freedom of growing legally, I am a hobby breeder, I mostly grow my own strains and cross them (I have made a lot of strains in the last 5 years) I just recently mixed my stuff with G13 Pineapple Express to breed in their genetics and my next project will be to breed in original Neville's Haze. My strains usually test from 20 to 25 % THC and 5 to 6 % CBD they are all Sat Dom Hybrids and several of them make the coveted early amber.

    I use nothing but T5's for veg & flower I have an 8 bulb 400 watt light for veg and and an 18 bulb 1000 watt set up for flower. The veg light uses 6500K bulbs, The flower lights use GE 4100K bulbs with 2 ATI True Actinic bulbs for UVB. My flower light is stationary, so I grow the plants to "fit" in the garden and try to maintain a minimum of 2 feet between the canopy and the lights. I have had a couple of plants that did not cooperate LOL

    I grow in peat, a mixture of sunshine mix #4 with Hydro tron (clay balls) the mix is 50/50 I reuse the peat and am now on grow #36 with it. With each use I add dolomite lime to it. I have never had any problems doing this.

    For nutes, I use Jack's Classic Citrus FeeD 20-10-20 all the way thru and the only thing I supplement is sulfur and DynaGro ProtK (for added silica)

    Please feel free to ask questions as I know the way I do things is way different. I hardly ever have problems but when I do I deal with it, am very good at reading the plants, been doing this a long time.

    To kick this grow off I will post pics of my current garden which is my Wonderland (left) and my Colorado Thunderfuck (right) that were just flipped 1 week ago, there is also a re-vegged Pineapple Express in the back makin seeds (on the homer bucket) it is almost done.

    Let's get this party started,,,,,,,,,
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  2. #2
    Marijuana Growing Member
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    You may ask,,,,, why do you add sulfur? Because it is the key nute for resin production along with FE (iron) and Mag.

    Sulfur is what hot pepper growers add to make peppers hotter and it is what makes fruits sweet. Farmers are now supplementing more sulfur because it has been reduced in the air by the clean air act.

    These are pics of my CTF taken last week a couple of days after I flipped em, in the dark with a flash to light up the trics, you will see fans covered in trics as well as trics on new growth and yes you will see amber trics (my strains do this even in veg)
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  3. #3
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    Welcome Riddleme! Happy to have you aboard! The more experienced growers, and diverse methods, the better for us newbs to learn from!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RottMan View Post
    Welcome Riddleme! Happy to have you aboard! The more experienced growers, and diverse methods, the better for us newbs to learn from!
    Thank you, some of my stuff is pretty diverse LOL but I have fun and that matters a bit
    I'm diggin' my way... I'm diggin' my way to somethin'... I'm diggin' my way to somethin' better...
    I'm sowing the seeds... I'm sowing the seeds I've taken... I'm sowing the seeds I take for granted...

  5. #5
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    I flipped these girls on the 14th so it's been a week and 3 days

    Bitches are budding
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    I'm diggin' my way... I'm diggin' my way to somethin'... I'm diggin' my way to somethin' better...
    I'm sowing the seeds... I'm sowing the seeds I've taken... I'm sowing the seeds I take for granted...

  6. #6
    Marijuana Growing Member
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    That was a top down in the dark so I could use the flash, here they are in the garden,,,,
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    I'm diggin' my way... I'm diggin' my way to somethin'... I'm diggin' my way to somethin' better...
    I'm sowing the seeds... I'm sowing the seeds I've taken... I'm sowing the seeds I take for granted...

  7. #7
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    I feed/water with a technique that I created and named Makin it Rain, here is a description of how it works,,,,

    Make it Rain Extended Version,,,,,

    It is all about how mother nature does things and with her being the absolute best gardener there is I set out to copy her style.

    The PH of rain (in most places) is 5.6 so I PH my water to 5.8, to understand why you need to understand how everything works in nature and why they say soil is a buffer. This is why soil PH is somewhat important because when it is dry the PH should be around 7 or neutral. When it rains the soil takes on the wet PH of the water in the case of rain it is lowered. The acidic nature of rain activates things in the soil basically processing avaiable nutes and making them available to the plants. But at the low PH the plants can't get at them, I have attached a photo showing at what PH level the different nutes become available to the plant.

    What happens is the plant is basically drowing and starving when it rains so it goes into hyperdrive to wick the water out of the ground in order to survive, now that they transpire anyway but much harder when it rains. As they do this the soil buffers back to it's original PH slowly and as this happens nutes become available to the plant in the various ranges. (one reason you see more growth on the second day).

    Most soil growers will PH their water and nutes down in the low 6's and as high as 6.8 but this does not give the hyperdrive wicking effect, they will just transpire normally and slowly if you do this. Hence the growth you see in my pics from making it rain because I basically only let them rest for one day (to dry out and get O2) between making it rain and it is very important to know how to read them to know that this is where things are at otherwise you will easily fall into the overwater trap and cause them stress and harm possibly even kill them. It is also important that they have a healthy root system in order to be able to wick the water out of the ground faster.

    TIP: if they are growing fast and wanting water in short periods of time you know you have healthy roots part of learning how to read them and one of the things to be aware of.

    This is also the reason that I use chemical nutes as they are readily available to the plant right away as the wicking process goes through the various PH ranges getting back to neutral, it is a slower process with organic nutes as the rain activates and the little mico critters eat and poop processing the nutes so the plant can use them. now you must also understand that adding chem nutes lowers the PH of your soil with accumulated salt build ups, when you make it rain everytime you are basically doing what we call the flush (though in the other than MJ world it is most commonly reffered as leeching the soil) and washing unused nutes (salts) out of the soil thus allowing you to repeat the process all over again without having to worry about salt building up.

    Yet another reason that it is slower when going organic cause you are washing mico's out as well and then waiting for them to multiply back up and this is why I use Jack's because it is one of the best chem nutes available on the market today. JR Peters has a very good reputation and has been one of the best nutes for agriculture and gardening for many years.

    The process for container gardening is simple you make it rain with the low PH water and the plant goes into hyperdrive, you watch the top 3 inches of soil for drying out and when it does you feed them nutes but only till you see a slight runoff insuring that the pot is now full of nutes. Plant remains in hyperdrive and now feeds off the readily available nutes, you then wait till the soil dries and repeat. While the process is very simple it is the learning to read them that can be complicated and cause confusion.

    Learning/knowing when to do things is the most important part of the process. It is also important not to overfeed them which causes nute burn and other problems, thus the reason we start out with 1/4 of what the nute package says and slowly work our way up to discover what the plant can handle. I hope that explains it better for everyone
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  8. #8
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    I am a keep em green grower, there are a lot of reasons for this, major one is yield, but most important is (and most folks are not aware of this) is that the plant uses N to facilitate the process of converting sugars to alcohol (curing/fermentation)

    The following is a ditty I wrote years ago,,,,,,,,

    The Truth About Flushing,,,,

    There have been a lot of debates on this forum about flushing and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it in general flushing has its place in gardening and in the real world (other than MJ forums) is referred to as leeching

    This will be a long read but I hope it will set the record straight for everyone, this has been posted in several places here but I am putting to post together to clear things up a bit for all of you

    first a ditty from Sensi Seeds with links verifying,,,

    From an administrator at Sensi Seeds

    "Advanced - Flushing

    A critical look at preharvest flushing

    Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

    The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

    Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

    A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

    Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

    The major nutrient uptake processes are:

    1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

    2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

    http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

    http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

    The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

    3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

    http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

    Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

    Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

    Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

    Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

    http://www.sidwell.edu

    You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

    Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

    Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

    The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
    Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

    http://www.sirinet.net

    Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

    1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
    Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

    2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
    Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

    http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

    Storage organelles:

    Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

    http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

    Translocation:

    Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

    Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

    You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

    Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

    For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

    Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.


    Summary:

    Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

    The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

    Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing."



    Now with an actual botanical understanding of how this works we move on to yet another botanical proven fact that if plants are drowned, which occurs in nature in the form of floods they go into a survival fermentaion mode converting sugars into alcohol I am reposting my ditty on harvesting and curing so you can see the evidence of this,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Harvesting, Drying and Curing, A Research Study
    The first word we used for this research was Oxidation, the second word is Fermentation as the fermentation process is what makes "the cure" work so understanding the fermentation process is very important.

    Here at RIU there is a thread that includes a cut and paste from a book by Mel and Ed you all know I like Mels book I am not gonna paste it here as it is fairly long and this will be long enough as it is, but this same info appears on most every MJ forum and seems to be the basis for how we all cure today. It seems from my research that this was originally based on how tobaco is cured and we will get into that later, here is the RIU link to this info I advise you go read it then come back,,,,,,,,

    Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge

    There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.

    What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.

    I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place.

    Here is the info I found verifying that this old hippie myth is real,,,,,

    MrMistery wrote:@jules

    Plants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration.

    @douglebod
    Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
    Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive.

    -Andrei

    very true
    that is what my bio textbook says.
    just to complete the last part
    in alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debt

    found here,
    http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.html

    and,


    Alcoholic Fermentation In Plants

    By the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:
    "When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees due to a suffocation of the roots, followed by the production of alcohol in their tissues. On microscopic examination the tissues were found healthy, except the medullary rays, the cells of which, instead of containing starch or sugar, contained brown oily globules, the residue left after the formation of the alcohol, which latter is diffused throughout the root, tinging the cells of a characteristic brown color, and giving rise to an easily detected alcoholic odor.
    Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect.



    found here,
    http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-ho...In-Plants.html

    one more
    http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_gui...eId-23703.html

    I am giving you this info first as it relates to doing something prior to the actual harvest chop. The rest of what I found will bring everything that we find already posted in the harvest forum to a hopefully better understanding.

    We as MJ growers have modified/refined the basic knowledge of curing and fermentation of other plants due to the fact that our buds are not leaves and are therefore more subceptable to mold but the basic premise is the same, we don't add to much heat because it is known to degrade THC. We don't maintain higher humidity levels to avoid mold. The piling of the plants to induce fermentation is the same concept that makes composting work and for us home growers this is why we use a paper bag or cardboard box because it creates a scaled down compost/fermentation chamber, with this in mind pay great attention to why it is necessary to check often and rotate/rearrange the buds during this part of the process. Also know that this process will also continue once you put your buds into jars.

    I also want to point out that while it is easier to trim your buds before drying that leaving the leafs on and hanging the plant allows the leafs to dry formed around the bud to protect it from various things most importantly oxidation which we know degrades the THC. It also allows the buds to dry more slowly which is what we truely want to happen.
    My friend Shrubs did this on his second harvest, now I know why.

    Please remember that patience is a virtue the slower they dry the better they will be,,,,,,,,period. To many growers are in a hurry and as a result speed things up once you read all of the info I am about to present you will see what I am saying is true as I have (yes I have read all of it)

    Next I am going to share several MJ specific links about harvesting & curing as more heads are always better than one and the whole of all of them put together creates a pretty solid picture for us to consider as we try to improve our techniques. a couple of them even explain how to add flavors in case anyone wants to experiment a bit.

    Here they are in no particular order
    http://www.wietmeneer.nl/growing/haze.html

    http://forum.grasscity.com/harvestin...uana-more.html

    http://www.sky.org/data/grow/c21.html

    http://www.marijuanapassion.com/foru...p-Ed-Rosenthal

    http://www.420magazine.com/forums/ha...ng-curing.html

    http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5836

    http://www.seedbankupdate.com/cure.htm

    I am including the following links because they explain how other plants are cured in various different ways for color and taste this info will not only help us to better understand the various processes but may offer ideas for future experiments that might create a better end product. what you will see is while the techniques vary a bit they are all very similar.

    Cacao (chocolate)
    http://www.allchocolate.com/understa...o_factory.aspx

    Tea
    http://www.wtea.com/about-tea_growth.aspx

    http://the-leaf.org/issue%202/wp-con...age-layout.pdf

    Tobacco
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco#Curing

    http://books.google.com/books?id=9c8...curing&f=false

    http://www.cigars4dummies.com/tobacc...ng/drying.html

    http://books.google.com/books?id=4so...curing&f=false

    http://chestofbooks.com/health/mater...Tinctures.html

    http://books.google.com/books?id=A1I...curing&f=false

    lots of other plants
    http://bookshop.cabi.org/Uploads/Boo...1845933562.pdf


    We're almost finished, I found a couple more things that I know will spark your DIY talents for technique tweaking LOL

    Here is a homemade drying chamber
    http://www.coffinails.com/curing_tobacco.html

    here is a homemade fermentation chamber
    http://www.instructables.com/id/Toba...er-for-cigars/

    in the comments section they mention an egg incubator that has adjustable heat and humidity for around $70, here it is
    https://www.gqfmfg.com/store/comersu...?idCategory=29#

    and that brings us to the end of my research. I spent about 20 hours on all of this but you should be able to follow it all in just 2 or 3 since I was going thru 100's of pages to find the ones I have posted

    I hope that everyone that reads this comes away with a better understanding of how it all works and that as a result we all have better herb to enjoy in the future

    Happy Harvesting
    I'm diggin' my way... I'm diggin' my way to somethin'... I'm diggin' my way to somethin' better...
    I'm sowing the seeds... I'm sowing the seeds I've taken... I'm sowing the seeds I take for granted...

  9. #9
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    As I said I did that research years ago, now a days I simply water my plants with boiling water and then leave em under the light for 3~4 days which does 3 things,,,,

    1 Cleans & sterilizes the medium so I can re-use it

    2 kills the roots instantly and deprives the plant of O2 which causes it to start the fermentation process, the time under the lights gives it the energy to do so and since it can't get nutes it starts suckin on the leaves

    3 closes the stomata which slows down the drying process (remember drying to fast causes that hay smell)

    In my years of doing this I can tell you it gives a fresh dried bud the same taste as a 7 to 10 day cure IOW it speeds up the curing process !

    next I will share the fermintation chamber I invented based on this research,,,,,,
    I'm diggin' my way... I'm diggin' my way to somethin'... I'm diggin' my way to somethin' better...
    I'm sowing the seeds... I'm sowing the seeds I've taken... I'm sowing the seeds I take for granted...

  10. #10
    Marijuana Growing Member
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    I purchased some supplies,,,,,,
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    I'm diggin' my way... I'm diggin' my way to somethin'... I'm diggin' my way to somethin' better...
    I'm sowing the seeds... I'm sowing the seeds I've taken... I'm sowing the seeds I take for granted...

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